Mystery/Thriller Reading Friends discussion

Group read discussion for chapters 13- 24 of Denise Mina's Conviction. Spoilers welcome on this topic.
If the first to post please briefly summarize to guide the discussion.

Conviction Chapters 13-24

Chapter 13
Anna gets dressed and takes Hamish’s car keys. He thinks she can’t drive but she can. She just couldn’t drive using the licenses of a presumed dead person. She grabs up the scattered cash and opens the door to find Fin with her neighbor, Pretcha who says, “I didn’t know you knew the Fin Cohen. Anna tells Fin she’ll drive him home. As they’re leaving, Anna doesn’t notice Pretcha taking a picture of them.

Chapter 14
It’s been so long since Anna has driven that she’s lost the knack and careens recklessly. She tells Fin she’s going to Fort Williams and asks where he’d like to be dropped. He doesn’t answer. Anna doesn’t like Fin. He’s snubbed her whenever they met and she hates famous men. He was a pop star until his band broke up. He’s anorexic. He’s looking bad and Anna finds mothering him a comfort. She invites him along to meet her friend, Adam. She’s still having dark feelings so she takes out her phone and presses play.

Chapter 15
Episode 3 has the history of the Dana. She’s belonged to “an unusually high number of people who met terrible ends.” She’s often had a disputed title and therefore bought by risk-takers. The podcast recounts stories of Dana misfortunes leading to a reputation as cursed. There are reported sightings of the ghost of a young boy. A heavily fictionalized book is published asserting that a ghost boy is used as bait by demons and a successful movie is made from the book. All of this is why Leon was able to buy the Dana cheap. Anna thinks Fin has fallen asleep. She begins listening to the next episode.

Chapter 16
At first the sinking of the Dana isn’t a big story. An insurance company, expecting a big claim for Violetta’s diamond necklace, found the sunken ship and filmed the wreck. Film of the diver is leaked and goes viral. The podcaster believes the film has been doctored adding an image of a boy to get more hits. The ghost boy/demons story is revived and people flock to investigate. Saint-Martin shuts off discussion and the hotel ships Violetta’s luggage back to her mother so nothing will be pilfered for mementos. In the car, Fin is still silent and groggy. Anna pulls into a restaurant

Chapter 17
The waiter recognizes Fin and says he’s trending on Twtter. Fin borrows Anna’s phone and discovers Pretcha posted the picture she took. He’s entranced with the comments and revived by the world talking about him. Anna realizes he passed out in the car. She tells him to eat or she won’t let him back in the car. Anna looks at online podcast pictures. One is a picture of Gretchen Teigler with her assistant, Dauphine Loire who once took out a contract on Anna. Anna has no doubt Gretchen decided Amila would be blamed for the accident and made it happen. Anna looks at Pretcha’s trending picture and realizes she’s identifiable in it. In the comments there are links to her story. She’s terrified her daughters will find out about her. There’s a link to a story about “the other girl” being found dead in a suspicious house fire. She abruptly decides to leave the restaurant.

Chapter 18
In the car Anna puts the podcast back on. The next episode is about Amila, the ship’s chef. Trina Keany, the podcaster says police focus on Amila was to deflect attention from Gretchen Teigler. Anna is shocked Trina says this publicly. Doesn’t she realize it will put her in danger? Amila and her partner were working as chefs to raise money to open a bakery. Amila started having headaches which got worse while she was on the Dana. When docked in Saint-Martin, she immediately took a taxi to the airport and got on the next flight. She was on a plane when the Dana headed out to sea and sank. Police search Amila’s grandmother’s house and find evidence linking Amila to murders and robberies. It's discovered she’s the daughter of a radical French Resistance fighter. When there’s evidence of an explosion on the Dana, the police assume it’s been set by Amila, scion of a terrorist. Amila went to prison. Her partner shortly opened a bakery. Where did the money come from? The murders could only have been committed by someone on board the Dana and Amila has an ironclad alibi. As Anna reflects on the omnipotence of Gretchen Teigler and her money, she becomes more upset that the Twitter picture has outed her and revealed where she lives. She drives off the road.

Chapter 19
Neither Anna nor Fin is hurt. Anna is too shaken to drive so they sit a while. Anna obsesses about her past being revealed and her daughters one day finding out about her. She considers suicide but realizes the girls will be left with an image of her as a victim. She can’t ask the police for help; Gretchen Teigler is too powerful. Fin and Anna talk about his anorexia and her obsessive reading as self-medication. Fin asks why she’s so interested in the podcast and she tells him about meeting Leon and knowing Gretchen Teigler destroys lives. As she talks her craving to see Adam increases. She makes Fin watch the diver’s film and has him look at the picture of Leon and his kids. Fin notices the picture had to have been taken by a fourth person.

Chapter 20
They arrive in Fort William. Adam is a lifelong heroin addict and Anna is afraid he may be dead. Anna likes him because he’s as damaged as she is. No need to shield him. Adam tells Anna that Albert, the hotel manager, often asked about her. He took an interest in her and fired her reluctantly when he had to. Adam is a boatman, in charge of sailing at the hotel. Anna tells him about Leon paying the crew in advance. Adam says that never happens. Anna asks him why Leon would have done it. They talk through some possible reasons but none is satisfactory. Adam says Albert will know. Anna ought to go to Skibo. In the midst of conversation Adam calls Anna “Sophie.” Fin immediately notices.

Chapter 21
Fin asks Anna why Adam called her Sophie and she says it’s Adam's ex-girlfriend’s name. They head to Skibo because Anna wants to talk to Albert. He’ll know about Leon. Fin is reluctant and Anna tells him to get out. He confesses he doesn’t have any money or credit. Plus he “needs to be doing something” so he doesn’t seem broken to the people still interested in him. He proposes they investigate the Dane sinking and make their own podcast. He has a high quality little microphone he uses to record music.

Chapter 22
The next podcast episode is about Gretchen Teigler. She’s the child of two fortunes, fantastically rich, and reinvests her money instead of spending it. She’s always eschewed publicity. Her grandfather was a Nazi. Her mother married a rabbi. Late in life Gretchen’s grandmother takes up with a younger man who is draining Grandma’s wealth, Gretchen’s inheritance. Gretchen secretly sets up surveillance of Grandma's house and releases footage to the press. Grandma is evading taxes. Her will (to the boyfriend) is nullified and Gretchen inherits everything, which turns out to be not much. She rebuilds the family fortune, investing in football. Dauphine Loire starts to work for Gretchen. A whistle-blower who makes allegations about Gretchen’s football finances is killed and the case, which involved a housefire intended to disguise the murder, is never solved. Leon and Gretchen marry. Leon begins a closer relationship with his children. There are many loose ends left in the Dana sinking: a witness told a TV reporter he saw a blonde woman in a striped dress cast off. His interview disappeared. Amila and her partner opened a bakery though they only had a third of the money needed. Where is the diamond necklace? The podcaster thinks Leon planted the explosives, drugged himself and his children, and sailed. Gretchen’s influence resulted in Amila being tried and sent to prison. Anna thinks the podcaster is reckless for making outright implications of Gretchen Teigler.

Chapter 23
Anna and Fin arrive at Skibo and are admitted to see Albert who takes them to his personal house. Anna asks him if he remembers Leon. He does and is aware Leon later married Gretchen Teigler. He doesn’t want to talk about Gretchen. When Fin leaves the room Albert says to Anna, “Aren’t you in enough trouble, Sophie Bukaran?”

Chapter 24
Albert and Anna go for a walk, Albert telling Fin to stay at the house. As she leaves, Anna is sad because she doesn’t know if she’s coming back or will see Fin again. Anna decides to tell readers her story, which we may have heard before, but “not in this way.”

Well, thank goodness. Apparently Anna/Sophie is finally going to tell us her story, at the 50% mark. I’m much more intrigued by her mystery than the Dana and I was beginning to think I’d scream if there were one more mention of her unmentionable past.

I’m sure it will all connect up somehow with Leon and the Dana and I’m really curious to see how. Is it possible that Leon who “didn’t really belong at Skibo” for some reason sought Anna there 9 years ago? She already had a history with Gretchen at that point.

When we learned of Gretchen’s family history I had a momentary suspicion that she and Amila might be connected: one from generations of wealth, shady dealings, and Nazis; the other from a background of resistance. Up to this point we don’t know much about Anna’s background except for her father’s suicide. Could she also be in that mix?

Intriguing story telling at this point with dual mysteries running side by side. Mina writes the podcasts briskly enough to keep the pages of recounting the Dane story from becoming tedious. She always has good characters and Anna, Fin, and minor characters don’t disappoint.

Jan O'Cat: you make me laugh! I was pretty happy with the break point for chapters putting Anna/Sophie's story at the start of the next segment for ease of the discussion. My thoughts on Leon hadn't included him seeking out Anna for a specific purpose, but you raise an intriguing point!
OMalleycat wrote: "Well, thank goodness. Apparently Anna/Sophie is finally going to tell us her story, at the 50% mark. I’m much more intrigued by her mystery than the Dana and I was beginning to think I’d scream if ..."

Jan O'Cat: Anna's inability to drive well added humor to the adventures she and Fin embarked on. Of course accidents and reckless driving aren't really funny but the picture of them together is.
Fin is such a vividly drawn character. Who couldn't imagine his reaction to a social media revival in public interest. Anna's situation is much more serious, but in her case visibility makes her harder for Gretchen to get to her quietly.

The revelation of Anna's identity by Adam as "Sophie" in front of Fin was clear to us, and muddy for Fin. I liked that Fin took longer to get to her real identity, and didn't realize the danger they were in.... but the reason that Adam knew who she was wasn't clear to me (probably missed it) Anna didn't seem surprised by it from Adam, but was shocked and resigned when it was Albert.
What a challenge to keep up with three identities (counting her relationship with Hamish as third)
OMalleycat wrote: "
Chapter 13
Anna gets dressed and takes Hamish’s car keys. He thinks she can’t drive but she can. She just couldn’t drive using the license of a presumed dead person.
Chapter 17
The waiter recognizes Fin and says he’s trending on Twitter. Fin borrows Anna’s phone and discovers Pretcha posted the picture she took. He’s entranced with the comments and revived by the world talking about him.
Chapter 21
Fin asks Anna why Adam called her Sophie and she says it’s Adam's ex-girlfriend’s name. They head to Skibo because Anna wants to talk to Albert.

."

Ann wrote: "Anna's inability to drive well added humor to the adventures she and Fin embarked on. Of course accidents and reckless driving aren't really funny but the picture of them together is. "

Ann, the first time I read it, I thought Anna’s breakdown after Hamish left had taken all day. It seemed like a long miserable time. So I assumed Fin had come by in the evening and was picturing all the crazy driving happening at night. Yikes!

I liked the way Mina kept Anna and Fin together on the road through a series of slapdash, half-assed, random decisions. In Glasgow Fin doesn’t answer when Anna asks where he wants to be dropped so she just keeps him. Anna is comforted by taking care of him. Once they’re out of the city, Fin has to stick with Anna because he has no money and wants to continue investigating to present a good image to his Twitter following. Staying together in this way rather than by any real commitment gives them that comedic, antagonistic relationship that adds humor to a couple of fairly grim plots.

On the other hand, for all of the motherly role Anna takes with Fin, one of the reasons she likes Adam is specifically that he doesn’t need to be protected. Quite a variance and one I took to be based on when she knew these guys. Adam is from her younger days when all her efforts had to be to self-protection. She met Fin after she had kids and learned to be a mother.

Ann also wrote: “but the reason that Adam knew who she was wasn't clear to me (probably missed it) Anna didn't seem surprised by it from Adam, but was shocked and resigned when it was Albert.”

On its face, I just took it that Anna had confided in Adam at some point since they were so close. But now that I’m thinking of it, that doesn’t explain why he’d call her “Sophie” without thought. He might know that’s her real name, but surely he’s only ever known her as Anna.

Jan O'weareonthesamepageCat:
I thought the crazy winding road driving was at night too, at least the trip to Skibo to see Albert. I suppose the initial embarking on the trip might have been daytime so Petchka's photo could be clearer.
Lol I love your comment "Fin doesn't answer, .... so she just keeps him". That was exactly what it felt like to me!! She's adopted him.
He was so funny and needy peering in through the letter box slot (seeking solace and direction as it turned out)
And it was a miserable day.

OMalleycat wrote: ", the first time I read it, I thought Anna’s breakdown after Hamish left had taken all day. It seemed like a long miserable time. So I assumed Fin had come by in the evening and was picturing all the crazy driving happening at night. Yikes!

I liked the way Mina kept Anna and Fin together on the road through a series of slapdash, half-assed, random decisions. In Glasgow Fin doesn’t answer when Anna asks where he wants to be dropped so she just keeps him. ..."

Ann wrote: "Lol I love your comment "Fin doesn't answer, .... so she just keeps him". That was exactly what it felt like to me!! She's adopted him.
He was so funny and needy peering in through the letter box slot (seeking solace and direction as it turned out) ..."

Yes, this turn of events tickled me too. I wondered how Mina was going to keep the two of them together since she couldn't stand him and he didn't want to stay, or had mixed feelings anyway. I also wondered (as I always do when a team of the opposite sex get together) whether romantic feelings were going to develop. I didn't see how, since he was described so unappealingly (anorectic, etc.) but you never know.

Did it bother anyone else that Amila continued to be incarcerated even though there was eyewitness, film and document evidence that she was on a plane at the time of the murders? I suppose one is meant to put this down to Gretchen's power and influence, but every time it was mentioned it took me out of the story with thoughts of "that couldn't possibly happen!" of course it happens all the time but not with all that evidence commonly reported and known to all.

Carol: It did seem unfair and I wondered what sort of defense lawyer Amilia had ..... would that be 'defence' lawyer in the UK? ;)
Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Did it bother anyone else that Amila continued to be incarcerated even though there was eyewitness, film and document evidence that she was on a plane at the time of the murders? I suppose one is m..."

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Did it bother anyone else that Amila continued to be incarcerated even though there was eyewitness, film and document evidence that she was on a plane at the time of the murders?."

This did bother me. I think you’re right, that it’s to indicate Gretchen Teigler’s power. I think I also put it to some possible Draconian-ness of the French legal system or that her trial and incarceration were in France while possibly most of the investigation was in Great Britain. Wasn’t the island between the two countries? Mostly I think it was just a plot point to lend some real need to re-investigate the murders, not just as a kind of hobbyhorse, but to clear Amila.

I agree Ms. O’Cat: the moral outrage against the railroading of Amila added to the incentive of pursuing the mystery of the Dana along with Anna’s feeling her friend Leon had been wronged by Gretchen Teigler too.
It also allowed for the subtle showing of Amila’s family’s past activist and criminal activities that had sealed the circumstantial case against her. I thought it was nice to have that added depth.

OMalleycat wrote: "Mostly I think it was just a plot point to lend some real need to re-investigate the murders, not just as a kind of hobbyhorse, but to clear Amila.”

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Did it bother anyone else that Amila continued to be incarcerated even though there was eyewitness, film and document evidence that she was on a plane at the time of the murde..."

OMalleycat wrote: "Well, thank goodness. Apparently Anna/Sophie is finally going to tell us her story, at the 50% mark. I’m much more intrigued by her mystery than the Dana and I was beginning to think I’d scream if ..."

yes, very ready to hear Anna's story. Trying to stay sympathetic to her, but at this point she seems unstable and I wonder if she's a reliable narrator.

OMalleycat wrote: "Ann wrote: "Anna's inability to drive well added humor to the adventures she and Fin embarked on. Of course accidents and reckless driving aren't really funny but the picture of them together is. "..."

it made me think Adam and Albert had been discussing her at times in the past and calling her by her real name. I'm not sure if they are "compromised" old friends or really looking out for her.

OMalleycat wrote: "Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Did it bother anyone else that Amila continued to be incarcerated even though there was eyewitness, film and document evidence that she was on a plane at the time of the murde..."

I think there are lots of innocent people in prison in all countries and lots of people who think and investigate how they are innocent, but usually money /good lawyers are needed to actually reopen cases. This crime podcast might be trying to do that.

Bonnie wrote: "I think there are lots of innocent people in prison in all countries and lots of people who think and investigate how they are innocent, but usually money /good lawyers are needed to actually reopen cases. This crime podcast might be trying to do that..."

Good point, Bonnie. I just struggle with the fact that there were three pieces of unassailable evidence of her being somewhere else, and I thought that it had to be a pretty corrupt judge, jury, whatever, or an incompetent defense attorney, to have her wind up in jail. And to what motive? Although now that you're making me think about it, Gretchen has enough money to bribe any of those potentially bad actors to get the outcome favorable to her situation, ....

Carol and Bonnie: Exactly! To what motive. Amila was railroaded to jail and someone with the kind of money Gretchen Teigler has could certainly pay for it. I don't think Amila had the resources to fight back.

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "Good point, Bonnie. I just struggle with the fact that there were three pieces of unassailable evidence of her being somewhere else, and I thought that it had to be a pretty corrupt judge, jury, whatever, or an incompetent defense attorney, to have her wind up in jail. And to what motive?

Bonnie wrote: "I think there are lots of innocent people in prison in all countries and lots of people who think and investigate how they are innocent, but usually money /good lawyers are needed to actually reopen cases. This crime podcast might be trying to do that.
.."