Love & Social Change discussion

Yes, suffering can be a platform for change. It has been said, our darkest times is how God molds us. We must let go of the past to reach our potential and chose free will.
Nick Hernandez author "Sea Tales The Guardianship"

hmmm … thinking …

Adam & Eve rejected God's gift of eternal life. Death entered the world, and one of their sons killed the other. I can't see how the pain of the death of a child can lead to freedom.

Abraham & Sarah did not believe God would make them the parents of great nations. Abraham had a son with Sarah's maid Hagar, the Arab race came into the world, and brother is fighting brother until this day.

Beyond myth and legends, we have ancient history with the story of David, the great King of Israel, his adulterous affair with his mistress that led to the murder of her husband.

Finally, we have Jesus, being born to a virgin. We have the sacramental marriage of Mary and Joseph and the ideal of the Holy Family.

But in the 7th century, we have the institutionalisation of Islam, the practice of conquest through war and the victor legally taking up to four wives as the spoils of war.

The Protestant Reformation led to the freedom to divorce and remarry, which according to Mark 10:1-10 is adultery.

And now with the sexual revolution of the 1960s, we have the freedom to kill unwanted children who are the fruit of the love between a man and a woman.

Reflecting on our history of sexuality, I see betrayal as the obvious consequence of original sin, or the individual's human tendency to follow his or her own will. If we idolise a human being and follow his or her will, we are bound to get hurt.

As I see it, the only way to freedom is to find Christ, repent and sin no more. John 8: 10-11

well till 50's one must not think of being old - and should be able to run and have fun both. ..... having few grey means that you have mature approach !!

I believe the more deeply we accept our suffering (our "cross") with reverence and respect, the more we touch into and help begin to dissolve deeper currents of collective pain. Just being born into this world carries a sense of expulsion from paradise (the womb/ the spirit world), of betrayal.

Sandra wrote: "I believe the more deeply we accept our suffering (our "cross") with reverence and respect, the more we touch into and help begin to dissolve deeper currents of collective pain. Just being born int..."

reverence and respect … I like the sound of that ...

Nick wrote: "Yes, suffering can be a platform for change. It has been said, our darkest times is how God molds us. We must let go of the past to reach our potential and chose free will.
Nick Hernandez author "S..."

Hi Nick, thanks for your comment, I am only just now seeing it. I am wondering who it is that chooses free will?...

Sandra wrote: "Nick wrote: "Yes, suffering can be a platform for change. It has been said, our darkest times is how God molds us. We must let go of the past to reach our potential and chose free will.
Nick Hernan..."

Personally, I believe a child and many adults do not have free will e. g. a child who is tormented will react accordingly. When that child becomes an adult they have the ability to say I refuse to become effected by your behavior. Turn the cheek, just say no means more than our President could imagine, once analyzed.
Change is not easy for a person, many need a platform. Some can do it with education. The topic is great for discussion. Free will.......

Yes, what happens to free will when you want to do something and find yourself doing the opposite, for instance. We think we understand what will is, but I think it is another mystery, something like lining up with the events of your life maybe...

There are no perfect people, so betrayal, or should I say the lack of it, even amidst the greatest of loves is not a certainty. The only certainty is that it is an expression of pain and confusion for all parties involved. Our will comes with a great responsibility not only to ourselves, but maybe even more so to those we love.

Sandra wrote: "Yes, what happens to free will when you want to do something and find yourself doing the opposite, for instance. We think we understand what will is, but I think it is another mystery, something li..."

The problem with the human will is that the powerful dominate. That is why I prefer following the will of God. Only in God can I fully trust.

You are blessed to with faith, not everyone is. Lining up with the will of God is what I too consider true will. But differentiating what we want from the will of a higher power is not such an easy task for most.

Sandra wrote: "You are blessed to with faith, not everyone is. Lining up with the will of God is what I too consider true will. But differentiating what we want from the will of a higher power is not such an easy..."

Faith is a gift, and I do feel blessed.

The only task necessary is prayer. I grew up within a Catholic tradition and prayer was always a part of life. I automatically prayed before I had any true faith. In time I started to noticed that prayers are answered. My faith evolved through observation.

If you ever do a GIVEAWAY on Goodreads, this is going to be a bit confusing! YIKES! Good luck on your endeavor.

Using your imagination without limitation help capture your inner passion

Years ago, I read Charles Hampden-Turner's Radical Man that spoke of humans as being a radiating center of meaning. He stated that we, through our choices, despite our conditioning, create our destiny, and it made sense to me. Years later, when my children (ages 10 and 12) were victims of a religious hijacking, I knew I had to make something good out of losing my daughters, and so I wrote our story in the form of a novel and then a fictional memoir, in the hopes of saving others who were grappling with the same issues I'd struggled with. That choice about how to face such adversity, and that action, saved me -- as well as others.

Carmen wrote: If we idolise a human being and follow his or her will, we are bound to get hurt.

As I see it, the only way to freedom is to find Christ, repent and sin no more. John 8: 10-11

Well, Jesus was also human. If we focus our attention on a human beings-turned-God then every religion has its own human being who are avatars, Son of Gods, Prophets etc., It is this tendency of religious people that led to religious intolerance.

Let us see God, simply as God. If we want to accept a human being as God then we must give that space to all spiritual masters the world has produced-there are thousands of them. Only then we can create a better world for our children.

Yes, I think it's important to accept spiritual masters from other religions besides our own. We may continue with our beliefs from our chosen religion without disrespecting other religions. I find that the intolerance that we have around the world mostly stems from religious beliefs and interpretations of the 'scriptures' which have been translated from translations, and changed over the centuries. I have written a long paper unpublished paper on this that goes into areas of graven images, iconoclasm, how one religion tries to destroy another, etc and how this has changed over the centuries and has been reinterpreted and then ignored.

Connie, you are absolutely right. Unfortunately the world has spent too much time to project one or two spiritual masters and their teachings as the only option. There is very little effort to bring wholeness as the experience of God. If religious extremism and terrorism is ravaging the world today, in way each one of us are indirectly contributing to that situation. Each of us has the right and freedom to practice our own selective master;s teachings but at the same time we must accept the world has produced thousands of spiritual masters, both men and women, and respect all of them equally.

The Only Permanent Solution to All Human Problems is the Rational God

Connie wrote: "Yes, I think it's important to accept spiritual masters from other religions besides our own. We may continue with our beliefs from our chosen religion without disrespecting other religions. I fi..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GicWZ...

mark

Connie, I couldn't agree more. I will even go so far as to say that the major religions are really different ways to say the same thing. We are really more alike than we are different. We need to embrace the commonality and celebrate the differences.

Gary wrote: "Connie, I couldn't agree more. I will even go so far as to say that the major religions are really different ways to say the same thing. We are really more alike than we are different. We need to e..."

“...Huston Smith likened religions to 'a stained glass window whose sections divide the light of the world into different colors.'..." J Horgan "Rational Mysticism"

mark

I like that analogy

Matthew 7:15, Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Don't drink the cool aid!!!
Remember Jim Jones, drink the cool aid......

Well, for every statement you quote from one religion you will find exactly same or similar or more powerful statements from other religions.

Nick wrote: "Matthew 7:15, Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Don't drink the cool aid!!!
Remember Jim Jones, drink the cool aid......"

Thank you, Nick, for the reminder. False prophets dressed as cute little sheep are extremely dangerous.

Sajith wrote: "Carmen wrote: If we idolise a human being and follow his or her will, we are bound to get hurt.

As I see it, the only way to freedom is to find Christ, repent and sin no more. John 8: 10-11

Well, Jesus was also human. "

Yes, Sajith, Jesus was fully human and fully divine. This is what makes Christianity unique among the major religions.

Carmen wrote: Jesus was fully human and fully divine. This is what makes Christianity unique among the major religions.

When we are in the dark our torchlight will show us just a few feet of light. It would not be wise to make judgments of the entire world from what we see in that few feet of light.

If we explore the whole world we will know there were thousands of men and women who lived as human beings and also as God. It just takes a little more effort to explore. That is all.

However, this truth by no way reduces Jesus's spiritual wisdom. It just reminds us that there are/were many men/women like Jesus. This realization is essential for the world to remain a peaceful place and also for our own spiritual growth.

Sajith wrote: "Carmen wrote: Jesus was fully human and fully divine. This is what makes Christianity unique among the major religions.

When we are in the dark our torchlight will show us just a few feet of ligh..."

The torchlight I use is a five thousand year religious history. While there are false prophets that claim to be God, only Jesus is truly the Son of God.

There are religions that are older than 5000 years and they were the beginning, and are the base of some of the present religions. We need that fundamental base, it's what kept the human race alive, to not kill, to not take more than your share, to care for Earth. We are here to find God,Jehovah, Allah, Great Spirit,Goddess, whatever name you choose to use, because it is the same 'being', in the full sense of the term, that we are within and that is within us. There are many 'paths up the mountain', and it is a pathless path.

Connie wrote: "There are religions that are older than 5000 years and they were the beginning, and are the base of some of the present religions. We need that fundamental base, it's what kept the human race alive..."

There are statues and artwork tens of thousands of years old. But the Hebrews were the first and only to document the relationship between humanity and God through the written word.

Wonderful outlook and post Connie.

Sorry Carmen, the Hebrews were not the first, try looking a bit deeper. The Vedas are at least 10 thousand years old if not timeless. The Vedas have been written and illustrated in Art.

Actually one should not be caught up in the element of time. What difference does it make who was first. God, the Holy Spirit, Jehovah, Allah, the Great Spirit are ways humans attempt to describe the indescribable. Most spiritual text describe their version of God as Infinite ... How many Infinite's are there? By definition there can only be one! Try stepping out of the Infinite and see where you are. We must be part of that Same Infinite. It is shared by all things. Lets not try to say the the Hebrews or any other group has the last or first word and can claim it all. This is very limited awareness. This site is about expanding one's awareness and expression through Books. If you have a limited perspective, try reading something else.

Infinite Peace, Happiness and Awareness to All!!!

Thomas wrote: "Wonderful outlook and post Connie.

Sorry Carmen, the Hebrews were not the first, try looking a bit deeper. The Vedas are at least 10 thousand years old if not timeless. The Vedas have been writt..."

As I said, Thomas, artwork dates back tens of thousands of years. But Hebrew Scripture remains unique.

The Holy Spirit and the Great Spirit are the same. That is why native Americans adopted Christianity so quickly.

Allah is Arabic for God. And Jehovah also has its roots in Hebrew Scripture. So God, the Holy Spirit, Jehovah, Allah, the Great Spirit all trace their beginning to the same God of Abraham.

There are many traditions that trace their beginning to Adam and Eve, the great flood, and other myths embedded in the collective unconscious. While there are infinite ways to express the Infinite, we should not deny that all of it is documented in one Bible.

Carmen you can hold on to the belief that all trace back to Abraham and there being one Bible. But the facts are beyond beliefs. Many existed before the mention of Abraham or the Hebrew bible. By the way the Hebrews don't call it a bible. It's the Tanakh!

Thomas wrote: "Carmen you can hold on to the belief that all trace back to Abraham and there being one Bible. But the facts are beyond beliefs. Many existed before the mention of Abraham or the Hebrew bible. By t..."

Thomas it is not my belief that I call the Tanakh the Hebrew Bible. It is simply two different names for the same thing.

And as I already stated, in Genesis of the Torah in the Tanakh of the Hebrew Bible, many traditions are mentioned before the mentioning of Abraham and the Hebrew people.

Wonderful discussion going on here.

The Vedas are the first scripture. No scripture predates the Vedas. However, that does not mean the Vedas are the only scripture that spoke the truth. All scriptures speak the truth in various shades and hues.

Ultimately it is for the seeker to open up to this reality. If we open up to the reality we will grow spiritually. If not we will be imprisoned in our own mind.

There is no way a closed mind can ever find God. Only an open mind can explore the truth of God. It doesn't matter how many scriptures one reads or how strong the faith is, as long as the mind refuses to open up God never becomes a reality for that mind, even after death.

Sajith wrote: "Wonderful discussion going on here.

The Vedas are the first scripture. No scripture predates the Vedas. However, that does not mean the Vedas are the only scripture that spoke the truth. All scrip..."

The individual's relationship with God is personal and subjective. And we all agree that the Vedas and other ancient texts predate Hebrew Scriptures.

But if we put aside our subjective perspective, we find an objective perspective found only in the Bible.

Sorry, but there is only one Truth. Life would be chaotic if we allow every individual to define truth subjectively.

When we accept the Absolute Truth as Reality, then we are free to roam the cosmos as pure gift from the one God.

Subjective, objective, absolute etc., Who are we to talk about all these connotations in absolute terms! If one scripture is objective then other scriptures are also the same. If one scripture is subjective so are all other scriptures.

How can anyone in his/her objective analysis be so sure and confident about the objective nature of a particular scripture! Such people must use the word "belief" not objectivity.

Sajith wrote: "Subjective, objective, absolute etc., Who are we to talk about all these connotations in absolute terms! If one scripture is objective then other scriptures are also the same. If one scripture is s..."

Perhaps we are getting a bit off the subject, which is Jesus, the only begotten Son of the one God.

All major religions believe in one God. Hinduism and Buddhism does not define God as do the three religions of Abraham: Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Rather, Eastern religions practice devotions to deities as a way to God.

But all religions believe in one reality, one universe, one humanity. Only Christianity claims God incarnated in Jesus. But Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet. And all humanity accepts him as a human being.

No religion that I know of states that individual human beings can become God the Creator. Rather we all agree that God is God, and that humans are human.

Gary wrote: "Connie, I couldn't agree more. I will even go so far as to say that the major religions are really different ways to say the same thing. We are really more alike than we are different. We need to e..."

We are more alike then we are different, Gary. I could not agree with you more.

I also agree that we should celebrate our diversity. But I sadly feel that Islam and Christianity are not celebrated, but are under attack.

Hello Carmen, Your comment that no religion states that the individual human can become god the creator is not completely true. Not all agree that God is God, and humans are humans. Various groups in Hinduism: Shaivism and Vaishnavism to name a few believe their goal in the human life is to become one with God. You have the system of yoga, and yoga means union! That is union with God & creation...all things.
In Buddhism there is not the belief of a Creator only Infinite Existence of form and non-form interconnected. The goal of Buddhism is to also become one with and recognize that you are that void, there can be nothing else.

Yes, we should celebrate diversity that exists in university. All groups from time to time may be persecuted. It is the nature of humans not God.

You have very strong opinions that are not based in facts. I encourage you to return to the learning process. Start with loving yourself and viewing all other belief systems with love instead of creating divisions.

If your God is Infinite, how can anything including humans be outside of this infinity. Therefore, God and humans are One.

Jesus is mentioned in the history of many religions, not as the son of God but as prophet in some and saint in others and so on. I think that in almost every pure religion the stories are and the guided words are meant to create a world of understanding and true thought. The other day someone told me that love is just an emotion but I truly believe it is a choice. I have read much and God is infinity because he created you and every tree and bush. The American Indians describe each element including man as a portion of God. Each tree and rock as part of the whole. Each religion has good and each religion has misguided individuals. Please understand that it is the choices and the evolution of thought and learning that provides us with those tools. I am proud to know each of you and I hope that helps.

It has ben proven that much of what we known previous to this time of science is because of what was left behind in word and stories passed through the centuries but science now shows us that there have been more lives even before Abraham. Did they write it down? I don't know and if they did was it something that we today would acknowledge or is it gone to us? Being open minded I believe we will never truly be enlightened in this world. We will live well and try to be our best and hope that it is enough!

An that is good, but through history that is like tell the children if you stick a marble up your nose I am gonna have to take you to the hospital and its going really hurt when they have to get it out. Some knuckleheads going to do it anyway!

The bible, like other religions has a map for life and here is the kicker it comes with free will. There's always going to be a fly in the ointment and a bit surprise in the stew. :)

You poor dear soul, the Indians were forced into Christianity here in America. Not that they didn't stick with it later but it was a requirement for their children to learn it because the government considered them evil and heathen.

Gary wrote: "Connie, I couldn't agree more. I will even go so far as to say that the major religions are really different ways to say the same thing. We are really more alike than we are different. We need to e..."

I couldn't agree with you more. I live in Evanston, Illinois where I'm part of the Interfaith Action of Evanston. We have more than 42 faith based groups coming together to work for and advocate for the homeless. When we discuss community service, we seem to all arrive at the same place from different origins almost like the spoke of a wheel.

Thomas wrote: "Hello Carmen, Your comment that no religion states that the individual human can become god the creator is not completely true. Not all agree that God is God, and humans are humans. Various groups..."

Hi Thomas,

I think we are in more agreement than you realize.

All religions teach that we are co-creators with God. But none teach that the individual is God.

If you agree that we should celebrate diversity, then begin by celebrating the uniqueness of the Judeo-Christian Bible.

Jennifer wrote: "Jesus is mentioned in the history of many religions, not as the son of God but as prophet in some and saint in others and so on. I think that in almost every pure religion the stories are and the g..."

Very wise words, Jennifer. Very true that love is a decision.

Let's choose to love all faiths and all individuals no matter where they are in their journey.

Jennifer wrote: "It has ben proven that much of what we known previous to this time of science is because of what was left behind in word and stories passed through the centuries but science now shows us that there..."

What I find fascinating about the Bible is that there are many other faiths within it.

For example the Magi that visited the baby Jesus. Their tradition goes back to Seth the son of Adam.

Jennifer wrote: "You poor dear soul, the Indians were forced into Christianity here in America. Not that they didn't stick with it later but it was a requirement for their children to learn it because the governmen..."

The apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe in 1531 marks the beginning of mass conversions in the Americas.

Our Lady does not "force" us to love her Son. She rather entices us with love.

Carmen, I do realize we agree about many ideas and concepts. Its difficult to use the words None or All. For example the basic teaching of Kashmir Shaivism is that the Individual and God are indeed One. Here is a site you might inspect for yourself: http://www.universalshaivafellowship....

You say you wish to celebrate diversity as a hook to your view of the uniqueness of the Judeo-Christian Bible. Its not that unique but part of universal expression. Keep reading outside of this and you will be amazed at how prevalent the underlying Truth exit in all. Infinite Peace and Awareness to you!!!