Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

I'm falling apart at the seams with all this promotion lark - none of which seems to be working. Check my blog: http://lauracea.blogspot.com.

You can post any ideas on here if you like.

LOL! I feel your pain! I tried clicking on your link it said it was not found?

I'm a published author, but I also have ten years of experience in advertising, marketing and publishing. That said, word of mouth is the only reliable, effective marketing tool. Now, on the internet, this is easier said, than done, of course ;)

That's one major advantage to social media. It's a great tool to use to emulate that "word of mouth." Meet people, network, join groups. It's much more likely for someone to buy a book if they've at least chatted with the author first.

See, promotion, contrary to popular myth, isn't about convincing people your book is the very best and they HAVE to buy it right now. Real promotion, as scary and daunting as this will sound, is about making friends.

Your readers are your friends. You just haven't met them yet :)

In terms of specifics, which I'm sure you're asking for, rather than philosophies, I've found running contests to be the very effective promotion. It both makes friends as well as uses word of mouth.

I hope that helps :)

Good advice, thanks!

I sympathize, and I'm not sure what works either. Of what I have tried--and I hate to say this--paid advertising seems to work the best. And I know I have picked some people up from social networking. But do you know how many books are out there? It's tougher than it has ever been and no reflection on your work.

Deborah wrote: "LOL! I feel your pain! I tried clicking on your link it said it was not found?"

Thanks Deborah - the link doesn't work because of that stupid little full stop at the end! And I thought the internet was intelligent. Here's the link: http://lauracea.blogspot.com/ (no stops!)

Yes, I agree with both Lily and Pro - social networking is great (especially if you're a gregarious person, which I'm not. In fact I'm a notorious thread stopper. Goodness knows why!) but it's not everything.

As Pro says, there're millions of us out there all yammering away. I am joining a group of other authors (some long-published and others newly published) and we're going to combine our efforts, promoting each other and as many authors as we can get hold of. The point being, really, is that authors should stick together. I'll see if that works - watch this space. Thanks for commenting.
Sue

Ok, I'm going to point out the obvious. When I went to your website, I didn't know it was an author's website. :(

The tabs across the top don't indicate it. There are no immediate visual clues. I would say that some very key pages are missing from your site such as My Books, Media Page, Excerpts, etc.. You have to remember that your website, first and foremost, is a marketing piece for your book.

It's great to do a blog *but* it shouldn't confuse visitors as to what the real purpose of your website is, which is to familiarize readers with *you* as an author and to sell your book by introducing people to it.

I was also confused as to why the site wasn't branded in *your name*. www.susanroebuck.com The site's url doesn't brand you as an author, which ultimately is what you want. It also gets your name into the search engines, which heavily drive visitor traffic online.

Hope you found this peek from an outside pair of eyes helpful. Best of luck to you.

Thank you Adonna, I'll take your much appreciated comments on board. Hmmm...looks like I have some work to do today. Excellent comments.
Sue

Book publicity...

Susan, I've found a lot of helpful resources over the years. Please see my blog entry, Readers & Writers.

http://duanesimolke.blogspot.com/2009...

From there, please click on the tag at the bottom of the entry that says "Writer Resources."

I'll give the tag below, but tag links don't always work at blogger.

http://duanesimolke.blogspot.com/sear...

Duane, http://DuaneSimolke.Com

Duane wrote: "Book publicity...

Susan, I've found a lot of helpful resources over the years. Please see my blog entry, Readers & Writers.

http://duanesimolke.blogspot.com/2009......"

Thanks so much for this link. I've bookmarked it and will return to it later.

Thanks so much Duane - I've followed you so I can keep up!

Adonna - I think I made the changes you mention. Does it improve the blog?
http://lauracea.blogspot.com

I don't know that there is any pat answer since there is no magic forumla. Each book and author is unique and marketing isn't a one-size fits all world.

Forums, formats,book tours, interviews, reviews, etc.,are a lot to handle in one lump. I tell people to dip their toes in and do what feels comfortable rather than jumping in head first. I learned from nearly cracking my skull trying to follow everyone's well-meaning advice.

All authors what to make a splash, become an instant success, but that's not reality. All those big hits didn't happen overnight. It takes years of trial and error to discover the right combination for you and your books.

Slow down, take a deep breath and re-evaluate what you've done, what worked and what didn't. Tell yourself it okay to take a few steps back to relieve some pressure. I did, and it worked.

I agree, Shawn. You can't keep banging on about your book. I've decided to take a step back and concentrate on writing the next one. And,let's face it, I'm a writer foremost - my marketing skills come a long way down the line.

LOL! I know the feeling. And glad to hear it. We need to continue enjoying what we do, or our readers will see we don't.

I agree with Adonna on every point she's made, but feel the need to emphasis one thing: You should grab the domain names that spell out your name ASAP, even if you don't plan to use it anytime soon. Because if you don't, some cyber-squatting program out there probably will auto-register it at some point. And then it becomes very problematic/expensive to get ownership of it.

I am late coming to this discussion -- have been writing:). Although many authors seem to not like to do book signings, I have found that nearly every independent bookstore I have approached has welcomed me with open arms. My novel has made many, many friends through book signings, and you would be surprised where these sales have led to all across the country.

Anytime I have left a reply on a lot of the forums here on Goodreads, folks have checked out my book and some have ordered it. The same is true with any internet groups I belong to. All we can do is continue to get the word out about our book, keep writing the next book, and let people know we are doing that.

And, yes, buy that domain name. It isn't that expensive and you will be glad that you did!


Kathy
Tierra Red

> I have found that nearly every independent bookstore
> has welcomed [signing events] with open arms

Very interesting Kathy, and I've independently come to the conclusion that this would have to be the case. But...for titles that are only in eBook form, shops seem to be less interested, because they're personally not going to sell any. So I'm searching for ways to have in-person "meet the author" events without a hard copy to show, hand out, sell or sign. Any ideas out there?


On another note, Pro said, back in February,

> and no reflection on your work.

Thanks for saying it out loud Pro; that's something I personally feel we all need to keep focused in our minds. Writing and marketing are completely independent tasks, skills, problems to decode. Lack of sales is as decoupled from book quality as book quality is from the weather. The most amazing book can quite easily see one lousy sale a month, or less...or even go out of print for want of any interest. Marketing is just completely unrelated.

I think there are several reasons why a book can flop (or let's say currently be flopping), ineffective marketing and poor book quality both being among them, and in our more vulnerable moments it's just too easy to witness ineffective marketing at work and confuse it for the other more fearful one.

My opinions!

- Mike

My first clean, humorous cozy mystery, If You Can't Stand the Heat, just came out, and I'm going through the same thing you are, Susan. I'm running a two-week giveaway of my book (ends today, Mother's Day at midnight), that's getting good exposure. So far I have 1085 people requesting, but more importantly 164 people have added it to their to-read list. You can decide how many books to give away and Goodreads does the rest.

Good luck,
Robin Allen

"for titles that are only in eBook form, shops seem to be less interested, because they're personally not going to sell any. So I'm searching for ways to have in-person "meet the author" events without a hard copy to show, hand out, sell or sign. Any ideas out there?"

Have you thought of making it available through CreateSpace? I'm doing that now with my next book (an annotation of Dorothy L. Sayers' Whose Body). So far, it's cost me time (to create a PDF from the Word file, design and proofreading) and about $66 for three proof copies plus a $39 charge to make the book available to bookstores.

I don't expect to make much off it, but it allows me to have copies to sell, plus it gives me a little more weight in the market.

Hi Bill.

> CreateSpace

A Print On Demand (POD) outfit, it looks to be. Good point, and in general yes, I have been looking at possibly printing a short run of a couple hundred books. Doing so puts us back into the hard copy world, I agree, and is probably one of the better ideas for solving the problem.

Still, the rest of the question of how to create eBook promotion events without printing hard copies is something that would be very interesting to explore in its own right. Some clever idea is lurking out there, I just know it.

- Mike

Mike, I'm in the middle of putting together a presentation for the Pennwriters conference next weekend on promotion and publicity, so this has been on my mind of late.

One possible solution to your dilemma is to offer something of value at a public appearance other than your ebook that's as close to your subject matter as possible. By that, I mean teaching a writing class, or talking about great suspense novels, or something spiritual connected to your book (as I assume something with the title of Archangel might be).

If nothing like this works, it will at least give you something to think about when plotting your next book. A writer, Lynn Viehl, had blogged (at "Paperback Writer") years back that one step in determining her next book is the marketability of her idea. If she doesn't think she can sell it, she won't write it, no matter how attached she is to the idea.

Great thoughts Bill. I actually sell my eBook online by offering a tangible adder (a hard copy item) to the delivery of the eBook itself. It's an overall $$$ loss but it attracts a little extra attention. I've considered doing that at "signings" too, but it would require the bookstore to feel they had something to gain. Maybe just bribing them will work. :)

Agreed on the salable concept up-front. Usually we start life in the novel world because something demands to be written, and damned the finances. Once reality sinks in and we tally up the hours or years we have in our first project, we become far more practical.

> something spiritual connected to your book (as I
> assume something with the title of Archangel might be)

Thanks for stating this perception out loud so I can comment on it; unfortunately that's a natural assumption. In fact ARCHANGEL is not a dogma-pusher, nor is it one of the numerous nether-world-entity things going around these days. It's an old-fashioned character-driven suspense story (some subtle romance and a little "thriller" naturally occurring in the weave). I'd consider changing the title to avoid confusion with such works, except that the title is so perfect for the characters and plot. I just have to believe it will survive the ebbs and floods of subject matter trends on the basis of its own merits.

One can but hope! :)

Thanks for the great ideas Bill.

- Mike

I'd like to give my opinion as a reader. First of all I don't own an e-reader. Yes, I'd like to get one eventually when I have the cash. I can't read books online ... the computer causes some kind of eyestrain. So to me offering a chance to win a free e-book is just a bad teaser. I am also sick of going to a website where a free book is being offered and finding I have to jump through hoops to enter. That is, it seems my email addy is not enough, I need to have my own blog. But I don't blog. I prefer to read books. I don't see why more publishers can't just do a giveaway like these at goodreads straight 10 books available say, let random organizer choose. I have gone to LT as well and am disappointed that about 95% of those giveaways are for e-books. Telling me I can download kindle for PC is no help. I want to read in a comfortable place, not in front of the computer screen. And then nobody ever offers a prize of a free e-reader. (one where I can adjust the background and font size so I don't have to strain my eyes.

Shawn wrote: "I don't know that there is any pat answer since there is no magic forumla. Each book and author is unique and marketing isn't a one-size fits all world.

Forums, formats,book tours, interviews, rev..."

Such great advice :) I agree...

I wasn't going to say this ... but as a mother of a recently published author ... a lot of it just seems to be pure luck. She showed an essay to someone who passed it on and someone wrote an article about it and agents and publishers approached her ... it was crazy. And now to top it off... Her father got a call from a former student of his who now lives in LA and her job is to take books and recommend them to be made into movies???? Coincidence??? I think she's walking in the you know what of good luck. She signed a book contract within one week of college graduation. Okay I can't say more. I really don't want to be known as her mother. But trust me, as good as it is, as she is, there is also a lot of luck involved.

Karen B wrote: "I'd like to give my opinion as a reader. First of all I don't own an e-reader. Yes, I'd like to get one eventually when I have the cash. I can't read books online ... the computer causes some kin..."


Karen, I can assure you the reason ebooks are preferred over paperbacks is cost. Paperbacks cost much, much more than ebooks and then there's the postage, often three dollars or more. This makes giving away ebooks very prohibitive.

I just wanted to give a big thank you to all of you. There is a lot of great stuff here:)

Goodreads has giveaways, but you do need to have paperbacks in order to participate. Doing "virtual" book tours is another great new promotional tool. Blog hops and themed "tours" of guest blogs are a lot of work, but they can connect you to lots of readers you might not otherwise reach.

Leigh wrote: "Goodreads has giveaways, but you do need to have paperbacks in order to participate. Doing "virtual" book tours is another great new promotional tool. Blog hops and themed "tours" of guest blogs ..."

Thank you for the great ideas!

There is also a group called figmentfiction (I may have the spelling wrong.) A relative of mine who is an author hooked up with them and they ran a contest to win one of her books. But the way the contest was done was with posts on Twitter. I can't remember some of the questions but it reminded me a little of Fridayreads in the way that they keep reminding everyone to post their Friday reads. All I know was that there were quite a few enticing invitations and references to the book that had to be great publicity. Contests seem to do a lot. This author also had an interview with someone on a blog where she asked readers to post their ideas about something in an email to her of 250 words. Then she chose the best, the person won a book from her and she published the entry in her own blog the next week. I can't tell you how many books I have seen posted as giveaways that I didn't get and added to my wish list at Amazon and have purchased quite a few of them. So it works.

Leigh wrote: "Goodreads has giveaways, but you do need to have paperbacks in order to participate. Doing "virtual" book tours is another great new promotional tool. Blog hops and themed "tours" of guest blogs ..."

How does an author go about doing a "virtual book tour'?

I use a facebook page and that seems to work really well for me. I have over 1,100 followers of my work. I think it works because I am not just using it to blog about myself. I use it as a way to inspire other authors. You might want to check it out incase you want to try something simular.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elle-La...

Elle
elleparaim.com

Elle, I liked your FB page. Nice idea, and helpful, too. My FB fan page is at
http://www.facebook.com/authordanmakaon
I hope you "like" it too.

Michael wrote: "> I have found that nearly every independent bookstore
> has welcomed [signing events] with open arms

Very interesting Kathy, and I've independently come to the conclusion that this would have t..."

Mike, I believe you left out a third important point regarding promotion versus book quality. That's the level of competition for publicity. After a while, traditional media outlets become flooded with questionable titles and/or floods of the same genre (everyone seems to be doing vampires or other fantasy). In addition, blogs have become so common I suspect the only viewers are the blog owners and their guest of the day or week. Other than GoodReads, social networking to promote books is a massive waste of time and effort. (Yes, I know others will disagree) That's my take after months of research and effort, including chats with many social networking promoters. None of whom have any hard data to back up their allegations.

@Susan: It is extremely difficult, dear, to be seen and heard in a very very loud, noisy, crowd!

The competition in the literary industry is insanely tight and incredible steep! We stand in the midst of a boisterous, loud, noisy, screaming mob of people who are all authors, who all want to be a best seller!

Every day, I receive an average of 5 emails from promotional companies for self-published authors and in each email is an average of 7 links to services that I can purchase from them to promote and market my work (my books).

I have chosen to be the quiet one in the loud crowd. I don't have all of that money to buy every single promotional package. And I don't have all those minutes and moments, hours and weeks to spend on promoting myself to everyone, everywhere. I have found that I have to remain in peace and just do what I can do. In the end when the crowd has fallen dead, I want to still be here.

xx,
C.C.

Karen B wrote: "There is also a group called figmentfiction (I may have the spelling wrong.) A relative of mine who is an author hooked up with them and they ran a contest to win one of her books. But the way th..."

Wow! Thanks for sharing! Sounds simple and (maybe) not so expensive (do you remember how much she paid?) I will have to check out figmentfiction.. : )

Karen B wrote: "I wasn't going to say this ... but as a mother of a recently published author ... a lot of it just seems to be pure luck. She showed an essay to someone who passed it on and someone wrote an artic..."

Wow (again) amazing luck your daughter has! Makes me smile! So good for her! She must have met a leprechaun somewhere along her way! (hehehehhee) Ask her what her secret to all that luck is! : )

xx,
C.C.

C, she didn't spend anything. Figmentfiction is a writers' group. Her only expenditure was a free copy of her book. However, as I said she has been very very lucky. She's been on CBS news, the Today show, Fox and Friends, NPR, etc. Yesterday she called me thrilled because her publicist and editor called to tell her that they had gotten word that her book is going to be in the top 20 of the next LA Times Non Fiction Bestseller list. She said "Mom, now when I fill out a resume for a job I can honestly say "best-selling author" But writing a book promoting reading ... it has to be like a political candidate saying he wants to lower taxes! She sees it as a sort of one hit wonder and she may end up writing another book but she isn't setting out to be an "author"

Oh I forgot, one other thing she did on her own for book promotion was to contact some local libraries and offered to give them a copy of her book and have some kind of contest to give away a copy. Three of the libraries ended up having her come and give a talk about her book and were selling copies of her book with the libraries getting the profit that would normally go to the bookstores. Because library funds are shrinking with the economy I guess they've found it helpful to sell books too! I just know she wasn't doing it as a "book sale" but as a giveaway contest. Her publisher did put a few copies on Goodreads giveaways too, but very few *LOL* It seems that Goodreads reviews are considered a cut above Amazon reader reviews.

Karen B wrote: "Oh I forgot, one other thing she did on her own for book promotion was to contact some local libraries and offered to give them a copy of her book and have some kind of contest to give away a copy...."

Thank you for sharing all of this with everyone, Karen B. : ) Very generous of you. : )

I want to find that leprechaun! : D

Happy for her! : )

I was set out to be an author since I was 7 years old, so, we are different, but it would be nice to find that leprechaun! : D

Thanks for sharing all this info, it's given me some ideas.

xx,

Karen B wrote: "and were selling copies of her book with the libraries getting the profit that would normally go to the bookstores. "
Karen, I'm really interested in this idea, so thank you for sharing it! How were the libraries provided with the copies to sell (and how many?)

And thanks for starting this discussion, Susan. I admit, self-promotion does NOT come naturally to me; my strategy/philosophy is to just chip away at it, and not to expect anything to happen overnight. Like many of you, I'm sometimes overwhelmed by the amount of TIME we have to spend on it - time that I would really rather spend writing!

The libraries contacted the publisher ahead of time and ordered some. I remember the one I went to, the director had ordered 25. But she had a problem with that publisher. Apparently they had done this before and paid the publisher AFTER the sale. But this publisher wanted full payment up front. So in a way the library was taking a chance that they wouldn't all sell (not sure if they had arrangements to send them back if not sold)

And I am the one who wanted to be a writer! I ended up a teacher which I loved. My daughter wants to be a teacher. *LOL* I'd much rather read than write although I will always be journaling. I actually wanted to major in journalism, ended up having to go to a different college, went in for library science but had to be an education major to get the cert as school librarian. Like I said ended up loving teaching until the last couple of years when the paperwork the school required became too much. I was living my job. It just got more demanding all the time and I knew it was time to retire.

Karen B wrote: "The libraries contacted the publisher ahead of time and ordered some. I remember the one I went to, the director had ordered 25. But she had a problem with that publisher. Apparently they had don..."

What a fascinating family!

Just a family who loves to read. Parents and two daughters ... mostly very different tastes. I am more into fiction than the other three. Kathy, the older daughter was very into the classics but I think with her work, her garden, her painting and her sewing, she is not reading as much as she had been. She has so much to read as part of her job so she is probably glad to come home and do something with her hands. *LOL*
I "collect" books but have given a lot away since getting a Kindle. Husband also "collects" in boxes where he stores copies of some great chidren's YA books that he wants his daughters to have to pass on to their children. The younger daughter believes books are to be shared and when she finishes a book, she always passes it on. She may have a few books she keeps but she tries to keep her space uncluttered. She's probably one of those who believes you should read a book and then just leave it somewhere for someone to find. Older daughter and hubby probably have a lot of books related to their work, non-fiction, current events type of books. Her husband reads very quickly and his interests are far above mine intellectually. But there is no doubt that we all think reading is important.The ability to read, to understand, to think for oneself ... all real values for me. One of my biggest fears is of getting older and not being able to comprehend what I am reading. Which reminds me, do those of you on hear who tweet follow Fridayreads? Remember to post your Fridayreads on Twitter!

Hey does anyone have any experience putting out a couple chapters for free as an eBook as part of their promo? I have some experience using Scribd but I'm new to the Amazon / iPad game. (And btw apologies if this was answered somewhere else in the forum; hard to sort through all these great posts.)

Patrick wrote: "Hey does anyone have any experience putting out a couple chapters for free as an eBook as part of their promo? I have some experience using Scribd but I'm new to the Amazon / iPad game. (And btw ..."

I could easily be wrong about this but my initial impression is that Amazon has a mandatory minimum price of $0.99 for authors to place books on Kindle. The only books that Amazon appears to allow for free are things already in the public domain. I.e. copyright protection has expired. I suspect they do that as an inducement for readers on a tight budget to frequent the Kindle system.
Amazon is, after all, in business to make money and it costs them for each download they do. Give enough copies away and it cuts into the profit margin -- not something any business owner wants to do.

Patrick. I am thinking on doing the same thing. Although maybe you can't do it specifically on Kindle, you can probably do it elsewhere and drive traffic there. At the very least on your website. anyhow, am interested to hear other people's experiences with this.

Oh no Amazon gives away other books too. Sometimes they will have a book listed for free and then it goes back to full price. In looking at some of the titles I have gotten for free, I see that some are the first book in a series, so it may be to encourage readers to buy the next book. I have so many books that I got for free! Somedays there won't be anything you like on the list, and some days there will be so many in your favorite area that you feel like you are downloading a library of books. I have actually had to delete many books because initially I was downloading almost everything that even seemed mildly interested. There are several ways of finding the free books (those that are not public domain.)
You can go to ereaderiq.com and even sign up to receive their newsletter daily. They also update it by the end of the evening; they give good descriptions of the books. Another way if you want the books early in the day is to go to the Amazon site and the Kindle forums (go to kindle store and click go and then choose "dicussions" from the choices under the search box) The is a woman Happy Reader joyce who posts every morning, a list of the free Kindle books. I think they have a way of determining if your book will be a "seller" and you can't really control when they will list it as "free".

Karen B wrote: "Oh no Amazon gives away other books too. Sometimes they will have a book listed for free and then it goes back to full price. In looking at some of the titles I have gotten for free, I see that s..."

I defer to Karen. She's far more experienced than I as an online book reader. My experience in that realm is as a relative neophyte. My comments were based on being on the opposite end of the publishing production chain.